Should NM allow concealed guns in restaurants?

Welcome to The Independent Forum. Every week we ask a different question and solicit responses from a diverse group of New Mexico thinkers, pundits and observers of the state’s political landscape.

This week we’re talking about a bill that has been pre-filed at the state legislature that would change the way New Mexico deals with guns and alcohol.

We’ll add responses as they come in, so keep checking back to see how the conversation progresses.

We also invite readers to participate — so please share your thoughts on this question in the comments section. If you have suggestions for how we can improve this feature or have have an idea for a future question, send us an e-mail.

QUESTION: “Should New Mexico change the law to allow patrons to carry concealed handguns into restaurants that serve beer and wine?”

PAUL GESSING, president of the Rio Grande Foundation:

Simply put, yes, law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry concealed handguns into restaurants that serve beer and wine, but restaurants and bars should be allowed to set rules on their premises that prohibit guns or other weapons. In other words, they should not be “forced” to allow those who carry weapons to be on their premises, but they should not be prohibited from allowing them to carry on their premises either.

JIM BACA, blogger, former director of the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, Albuquerque mayor, state land commissioner and recently retired natural resources trustee:

Who is behind this bill? Really! Someone who wants to kill a wine steward for serving corked wine? Someone who wants to protect a wine steward who serves corked wine? All of this is obscene!

I find it amusing to watch the local TV stations making a big deal out of the fact that someone took a loaded pistol into a movie theater. The recent incident at Century Theaters is nothing new. People with a little training, under a useless law, can carry concealed weapons into just about any place of business or public place. Except for the State Legislature that is. Apparently our gun loving legislators think their safety is more important than your children’s in a movie theater or mall. It really does not matter if a law makes it legal to do so. It is stupid. I would also invite folks to ask whether or not the thousands of weapon carriers we have are keeping up their certifications? I think not. Maybe a call to the the state police would answer that question.

So the next thing we need to do is distribute signs to all private businesses saying concealed weapons are not allowed on their premises. Or visible ones too. Could that be part of the new law? Do business owners have a right to keep concealed weapons out of their stores and cafes? I am betting a lot of them don’t want them in their places.

No, I am not against gun ownership. Just lunacy.

TERRI COLE, president and CEO, Greater Albuquerque Chamber of Commerce:

I’m speaking for myself here, not for the Chamber, and my answer is, “Yikes! No.” We are all still a bit numb from the recent theatre shooting.  Why we would want to add a gun to alcohol is beyond me. I suspect it’s probably already being done, but let’s not legalize it. Don’t get me wrong–I’m all for preserving our freedoms and I love living in the west, but few of us want to return to the old days of the wild, wild west!

BILL TURNER, hydrologist and former director of the Middle Rio Grande Conservancy District

No.

I haven’t packed a gun in 50 years, but as a gun-totin’ field geologist working in Wyoming in 1960, the only place gun-totin’ people had to check their guns were places that sold booze. Anywhere else, including banks, was OK.

BILL JORDAN, policy director, New Mexico Voices for Children:

I admit I’m biased. I don’t own guns and I don’t drink. But I’m familiar with guns from my military training, and I’ve seen what alcohol can do. From where I sit, loaded guns and alcohol don’t mix.

As a child advocate and parent, I’m biased. I’m concerned about the message we send to our kids every time the state affirms that guns are an acceptable way to resolve conflict in a ‘civilized’ society.

As a citizen concerned with high crime rates and personal safety, I’m biased. I just don’t believe that more people carrying loaded guns builds a safer community.  The data supports my view.

For several years, my job at New Mexico Voices for Children was to interview the families of children who committed suicide, which I did for the Child Fatality Review Board of the Office of the Medical Investigator. New Mexico has one of the highest rates of youth suicide in the nation. During the years I conducted the interviews, two-thirds of the suicides were completed with a gun and more than two-thirds of those were with a family gun that was easily accessible to the child—loaded and not locked up. These parents were devastated that the gun they bought to keep their family ‘safe’ became the instrument of their child’s certain death. I use the word ‘certain’ because suicide attempts with a gun are completed 99 percent of the time while attempts by other means have less than half the completion rate. If children don’t have easy access to a gun, they are less likely to complete their attempted suicide—meaning they’ll have another chance at life.

Several years spent reviewing hundreds of child gun deaths added to my bias.

New Mexico is in the midst of many major crises. Our children are not doing well in school; a greater percentage of them lack health insurance than in 48 other states; we have one of the highest rates of youth suicide in the nation; we’re slashing vital services for our disabled and elderly citizens; our small businesses are struggling like never before; unemployment is near record levels; and state employees and teachers face layoffs and furloughs, adding to the economic pain we all feel.

With so many crises to deal with, has the lack of loaded guns in restaurants that serve alcohol reached such crisis proportions that the Legislature needs to give it their attention in this session?  Let’s hope lawmakers focus their attention on the many serious issues facing New Mexico’s families. From my bias, allowing loaded guns in restaurants that serve alcohol is neither a good idea nor a priority.

CAROL WIGHT, executive director, New Mexico Restaurant Association:

At one time in New Mexico’s history it was legal to bring a gun into a liquor establishment. For very obvious reasons our lawmakers decided it was dangerous to have guns and liquor in the same vicinity and so they passed laws to prohibit the behavior.

Last year when this legislation was proposed, the New Mexico Restaurant Association was the only entity opposing this legislation and I’m certain we will be the lonesome cowboy again.

Don’t get me wrong I’m very much for Second Amendment rights and some of my members support this legislation. What they don’t know is that last year when we tried to get an amendment to limit the liability of the establishment if something were to go wrong, the Legislature stripped the amendments that would protect our members from the additional liability.

Restaurants already have their hands full with the responsibility to know when and how much each patron has had to drink, what their intoxication level is and if their driver’s license is authentic, valid, and states their actual birth date. To be responsible for customers’ gun carrying habits puts restaurants and servers again in the difficult position of enforcing New Mexico’s laws.

Concealed carry licensees will tell you that you will never know if they have their gun because it’s “concealed.” But…

What if a customer comes into a restaurant with a bulge at their waistline… How do we know it’s not a gun? How do we know they have a license? Do we ask? If they don’t have a license doesn’t that put the server in a VERY awkward position? If they do have a license, are we required to check it? We have been told that the concealed carry permit does not allow a person to drink on premise.  How do we enforce that law? Do we need yet more server training to enforce the gun laws in New Mexico?

It’s not as simple as it looks. I’m not that worried about the guy with the license becoming a scary drunk. On second thought, what assurances do we have that the concealed carry licensees are better equipped to handle alcohol than the general public? None?

I’m more worried about the guy without the license carrying a weapon into a restaurant and putting a server in the position of having to ask for a license to carry a concealed weapon. “LICENSE, I DON’T NEED NO STINKING LICENSE!” In this case I do not believe that having a person on premise with a concealed weapon would make anyone feel safer.

Once again, this law, if enacted, would increase restaurants’ liability and put servers in charge of law enforcement.  I believe if the Legislature does pass this law it will be one of those that a few years later they say “What were we thinking?”

I do understand that those who advocate for gun rights have a different point of view. I hope they understand where I am coming from and how this affects our businesses. They are looking out for their rights; we are focused on not being in the cross hairs.

CARTER BUNDY, political action representative, AFSCME:

Well, it’s nice to be on the same side as my friend Terri Cole and the head of the Restaurant Association, who I also respect! The response to this almost writes itself. Let’s see…lots of guys drinking alcohol, competing for the affections of women, then drinking more alcohol…I know, let’s add guns to the mix!

Seriously, you can love the Second Amendment and appreciate the importance of guns for hunting, self-defense, and out of the principle that the government shouldn’t be the only armed entity in the country. There are strong practical and principled reasons to support gun ownership. But we don’t allow guns at the Roundhouse because there’s simply a much better chance of them being used for bad reasons than good. How can anyone really think that guns in bars is a good idea? Talk about putting ideology over common sense.

Glad to find common ground with most business people here–a harbinger of good things at the session? :)